1. Bill Levinson said:

"They finally accepted Res 242 and the State of Israel in the Oslo Accords because it was part of their “phased plan” to destroy Israel. They never had any intention of honouring it and they never did. It is not the Islamic way. Agreements with the infidel are not binding." is why Israel should not have accepted it, and why Israel should expel the two-legged locusts and annex all the occupied territory. To hell with these vermin. http://www.omdurman.org/leaflets/pali_word.html for what a Palestinian's word of honor is worth.

2. Lori Lowenthal Marcus said:

"The Palestinians are making war, not nice." This line deserves to enter the lexicon. Use it to respond to all the misguided Kumbaya singers when they say that Israel needs to be nicer to the poor Palestinians.

Go TED!

3. Prof R. LEMIEUX said:

This is a brillant article.

4. Nathan Shuster said:

Ted:
The radio host kept on repeating how refreshing your views were. How amazing it is that in this day of situational morality the plain truth has become refreshing!

As you said, the Arabs have no intention of proclaiming or living in a Palestinian state. What will it take for the Israeli leadership to perceive this reality and begin acting accordingly? All the usual explanations aside, Israel's policies of reacting to their enemies have been disasterous, instead of smashing Arab hopes of conquest, they only whetted their bloody appetites. Israel's fears of the "Arab world" or the "Islamic world" are exaggerated. An independent Israel should act independently, free from the shackles put on her by her "friends."

And if they don't like it, let them learn to live with it.

5. Nathan Shuster said:

Further apropos this discussion, the following item only underlines the incomprehension of Israel's policy:

Breaking News - From JTA. December 8, 2005

Israel-Palestine drops as Arab priority

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict dropped drastically as a priority for Arabs since last year. A poll of Arabs in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates found that the conflict ranked seventh, as opposed to second in 2004; employment opportunities ranked first this year. Commissioned by the Arab American Institute and carried out by Zogby International, the poll found little support for the notion that the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is the most important factor in determining attitudes toward the United States, which remained mostly negative. Instead, the war in Iraq and American treatment of Arabs and Muslims figured much larger.

The poll of 3,900 respondents was conducted in mid-to-late October.

6. Ted Belman said:

Mike Wise writes.

from your mouth to .....

brilliant and I believe correct.

that is in part why no provisional state has ben declared in gaza.
see Indyk's op-ed last friday in the NY times.

7. omer said:

Salams(peace)
Every person haw their view, mine is that peace could occur. Why not allot Palestinians to have their lands, and Isreal have its? Nothing would prevent this if people on both sides would realize that this constant fighting will only breed more hate.
I ask that the author of this article Mr. Ted, be a little more factually accurate. When he says: "It is not the Islamic way. Agreements with the infidel are not binding." This is not true at all, in fact according to Islam lieng is forbidden, as is the taking of an innocent life. Also, any promises made must be kept, be they to a fellow Muslim or not.
If i have said anything right, it came from God, if i said anything wrong it is a faul of my own.
Salams (peace)

8. Bill Levinson said:

"Why not allot Palestinians to have their lands, and Isreal have its? Nothing would prevent this if people on both sides would realize that this constant fighting will only breed more hate."

Because the Palestinians have repeatedly shown themselves unwilling or unable to live in peace even when given land. They wrecked Gaza and began to engage in terroristic violence as soon as they moved in.

"in fact according to Islam lieng is forbidden, as is the taking of an innocent life. Also, any promises made must be kept, be they to a fellow Muslim or not."

Since Palestinians are Islamofascists and not Muslims, they lie as a matter of course. Their track record is a litany of broken peace agreements. http://www.omdurman.org/leaflets/pali_word.html

9. Abu boo said:

Omer wrote:

Nothing would prevent this if people on both sides would realize that this constant fighting will only breed more hate.

I have to wonder about this. The Israelis have wanted nothing but peace for 57 years.

What have the arabs wanted?

Actions speak louder than words. There are two cold peace treaties in place. There is no recognition of Israel. There is sabre rattling. There is no effort to contain and dismantle terrorist groups and their infrastructure. Every time a homicide bomber blows up, the palis whine about it being bad for the palis interests.

Bad for the palis interests. Imagine that.

I wonder how the victims of the homicide bomber feel about their deaths being "bad for the palis interests". Isn't their death bad for their interests?

Omer, I think we have finally come to terms that there can be no peace, as every Israeli initiative and palis agreement is violated by the palis. Every single one. Without exception. All that is left is disengagement.

If in some distanct future, a civilized and mature palis leadership emerges with the balls to make peace, then maybe, there can be peace. Until then, we may be able to forgive you for killing our children, but we can never forgive you for making us kill yours.

Stop forcing us to defend ourselves and maybe, peace can emerge. Thats all we ever wanted.

10. Felix Quigley said:

Bill
Forgive me but I think the language used re locusts and vermin is a mistake. A tactical mistake certainly but I am drawn to considering the leadership as opposed to the people and that is the issue in these discussions.The task is to break the Arab masses from Islamofascism and from Jew Hatred. I don't want to harp on about it however as I agree with everything else you write.

I want to draw attention to something in the Dr Wise Plan. He writes

"It would be suicidal for Israel to allow itself to be surrounded by Hamas on the west, Hezbollah on the north and the Fatah on the east. Iraq, Jordan and Syria are all unstable and Iran is building the Bomb. This is no time to add to the instability by creating the 23rd Arab state.

It is certain that “Palestine” will not be demilitarized whether the PA agrees to it or not. Just look how the US is forcing Israel to open a deep seaport and airport in Gaza..."

I support this One State Plan. However I feel that the implications of it have not been fully explored as yet by Israpundit.

As seen by the above lines it is a strategical initiative which challenges the very heart of the US and EU establishment. That indeed is the great beauty of the Plan as outlined by Dr Wise.

It means that a section of the Jewish Diaspora and within Israel are moving outside of and beyond, and actually in fierce opposition to many of the ideas that held the Jewish movement together since 1949.

Thus opposition and conflict between Jews and especially America may be a little tentative at the moment.

Rice in her recent travels was as is common with these American governments talking out of both sides of her mouth. One line for the Israelis, somewhat different for the Arabs.

Yes of course she would say we do want disarmament of Hamas et al, but not just yet. Wait for the elections.

What is really at stake here is the American role, and the EU role, especially German, in Yugoslavia during the 90s.

What has that to do with Jews you might ask? Well everything really. It is the big lesson in how these superpowers approach world issues. It has been neglected (almost totally) by all the pundits on Israpundit.

I have written some thoughts on this One State Plan of Dr Wise and I hope to return to the issue.

11. Ted Belman said:

The only thing that will prove me wrong is if the US will cut a deal with Iran (let them get the bomb), with Syria (let them have the Golan)and with Saudi Arabia (get Israel to agree to the Saudi Peace Plan)in exchange for recognition of and normalization with Israel.

After all, the Saudi Peace Plan provided for recognition and normalization as part of the plan.

12. Ted Belman said:

The US is trying to create a democracy in Iraq notwithstanding the violence and challenge to it. Similarly and contrary to the Roadmap, the US is trying to create Palestine admist the violence. US believes that the occupation is the problem and not the violence. The view held by many Israelis is that the occupation has more negatives for Israel then does the violence. So end the occupation and then leave it to Israel to force the end of the violence. The violence would then be an act of war by Palestine entitling Isarael to a range of options according to international law. She could declare war on Palestine and start the process all over again. That's the theory anyways.

13. Bill Narvey said:

While I do not disagree with Ted Belman’s thesis, I do think there is another fundamental layer that is making it very difficult for Palestinians to move forward to an independent state.

The underlying layer has to do with Western cultural values and perceptions vs. Islamic cultural values and perceptions. The stark and in some cases antithetical contrast between them makes the whole Western effort to move Palestinians and Israelis to a peace agreement including an independent Palestinian state, is akin to trying to push a proverbial square peg into a round hole.

The entire notion of an independent Arab/Palestinian state alongside an Israeli state has been conceived of by Westerners, based on Western cultural biases, values and perceptions of what Westerners would want and need, if in the same position as the Arabs who have been re-named Palestinians.

Consider the following brief history that the West has pushed on the Arabs.

- The Balfour Declaration.

- The British Mandatory Government;

- Israel was first populated by Westerners and is Western in its culture;

- The UN Partition in 1947, which the Arabs rejected and Israel accepted was conceived of and pushed by Western powers, though Britain abstained in voting for the Partition, having already decided that groveling before the Arabs would be more advantageous than standing up for Israel;

- Western nations aided Israel in defeating the genocidal Arabs in 1948 and subsequent genocidal inspired wars;

- The West, led by America has designed and promoted the various peace agreements that Israel and Palestinians have entered into.

The land of modern Israel, Gaza, Judea and Samaria was under Islamic rule until the end of WWI. Muslims on conquering Jerusalem many centuries before, as was their custom marked their newly acquired territory with mosques to designate it holy Islamic lands.

While the land was holy to Islam because it had been imbued with holiness by Jihad conquest, it was really not that important to the Muslim culture and Islam because until the late 19th century, it was harsh land, comprised of mountains, desert and mosquito infested swamps and was therefore barely populated.

It was bad enough that with the 1947 U.N. partition, the West did not restore to the Islamic Arabs, the lands that until just 30 years before were holy Islamic lands. To compound that insult, the West gave the land to the Jews, who are hated and reviled by Islamic scripture and which hatred had long been given life in Islamic culture.

There is the expression, “you don’t know what you got till its gone”. Relatively speaking the land of Israel is a speck measured against Muslim Islamic lands. It was not important to Muslims when Islam had this speck of land.

The importance of the land of Israel to Arabs and Palestinians is found in Islam not having that land that was once theirs, their fanatical religious based belief that once Muslim land, always Muslim land and finally that it is a sacrilege and an insult to Islam that Jews who defile that land and are reviled by Islam should have possession of that land.

The Palestinians continue to placate the West by mouthing words about peace and an independent state that the West believes is in their best interests and what Westerners see would fulfill Palestinians’ wants and needs.

The Palestinian’s however do not see their best interests as the West expects they should.

Palestinians’ words to their own people, their incessant demands and accusations against Israel, the majority Palestinian support for the radical terrorists amongst them and indeed all their actions very clearly indicate that Palestinians reject the Western vision.

The Saudi Plan, floated about 2 years ago was a publicity stunt to appease America and other Westerner’s request for Saudi support for peace between Israel and Palestinians and a Palestinian state. It had no chance of being accepted then. What is concerning now is that it is again being bandied about as a credible proposal.

Because the Saudi plan contemplates leaving Israel in place, it will not be ultimately accepted unless the Muslim world sees it as just a temporary situation that will become a future staging ground for the next Arab genocidal onslaught to take all of Israel.

That the Palestinians and their Arab supporters reject the West’s vision of what they want and need, explains why the Palestinian charter still calls for the destruction of Israel and the retaking of all the lands of Israel. Palestinian maps do not recognize Israel’s existence. The Muslim world continues its dissemination and incitement of hatred against the Jews and calling for Israel’s destruction. The Palestinians continue to lie and cheat in their dealings with Israel and unashamedly prove at every opportunity that their verbal or written promises given to Israel and Westerners are worthless.

By any Western standards, the majority of Palestinians are morally bankrupt and bereft of any of those personal qualities that Westerners consider honorable, decent and admirable and which speaks well of an individual’s character and humanity.

The Western qualities of tolerance and greed however work in tandem in a way that allows America and other Western nations to continue to pressure Israel into giving concessions to Palestinians who least deserve those concessions and to give Palestinians a pass for their detestable inhumanity marked by their dishonesty, their majority support for the murderous despicable Palestinian terrorists amongst them and their implacable Jew hatred that they revel in.

14. Ted Belman said:

Amen Bill. Well said.

15. felix quigley said:

"Palestinians’ words to their own people, their incessant demands and accusations against Israel, the majority Palestinian support for the radical terrorists amongst them and indeed all their actions very clearly indicate that Palestinians reject the Western vision. "

The Iranian issue shows that the issue is very akin to the hatred of Jews as espoused by Hitler.

These peoples are fixated about Jews, as was also shown in the speech of Malaysian PM a year or so ago.

The reality is that the US and EU are forcing Israel into a position where it is in ever greater danger.

They are applying some rules for themselves and different rules for the Jews of Israel.

It is this double standard which is the essence of antisemitism. On the One State idea its importance is to provide a strategy for the movement. I will return to it.